From hungary-online-owner Wed Mar 8 18:46:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-Hungary-Online Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) (fnord) by nando.yak.net (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA07371 for hungary-online-out31415; Wed, 8 Mar 1995 18:46:20 -0800 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) (fnord) by nando.yak.net (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA07359 for hungary-online; Wed, 8 Mar 1995 18:46:03 -0800 Received: via =-=-=-=-= from strick@gwarn.versant.com for hungary-online@hungary.yak.net (hungary-online) Received: from gwarn.versant.com (gwarn.versant.com [192.70.173.14]) (fnord) by nando (8.6.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA07282 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 1995 18:44:54 -0800 Received: from localhost (strick@localhost) by gwarn.versant.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA02973; Wed, 8 Mar 1995 18:41:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199503090241.SAA02973@gwarn.versant.com> To: Hungary-Online@hungary.yak.net cc: nandomatic@versant.com Subject: Re: (HOL) Mitnick's vindictive charactor In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Mar 1995 01:01:44 +0100." Date: Wed, 08 Mar 1995 18:41:11 -0800 From: strick -- henry strickland Sender: owner-Hungary-Online@hungary.yak.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Hungary-Online@hungary.yak.net # such a stern sentence. People have to look past this latest incident, to the # full pattern of how Kevin works, his vindictive nature, and his disregard for # society, to see why this individual needs to be kept away from society for our # own and his own protection. His own protection? Give me a break. Okay, so I'm playing devil's advocate here. This opinion will not be popular with a lot of people, but I would like to see people convicted of actual, demonstrable Bad Things, instead of the tomfoolery cited in this article. Join me in looking at this with litle context... # and steal $200,000 worth of data from a San Francisco corporation. $200,000 worth of data? What does that mean? Was that number fabricated by the same accountants that came up with the >$100,000 valuation of the $12.50 E911 administration pamphlet in the Steve Jackson / Craig Neidorf / Legion of Doom case? # Suddenly, his probation officer found that her phone had been disconnected # and the phone company had no record of it. hee hee... yes, a typical phreak prank. Nobody died, no elderly people were bilked out of their retirement funds, no innocent people went to jail or were executed, nobody used a third world country for fighting a war, nobody was denied economic opportunity or the chance to make something of their lives, nobody lied to congress, nobody subverted the democratic means of government for their own economic gain, etc. Really, put this in context. They're calling this guy dangerous? # A judges credit record at TRW Inc. was inexplicably altered. Police computer # files on the case were accressed from outside. A new warrant for Mitnick's # arrest was issued, accusing him of breaking into TRW's computer, but he fled # to Israel. lots of random accusations, no real proof. i could think of many others in the computer underground that would become curious about this judge, this police computer, the previous probation officer, etc. There is some element of truth, beyond the media hype, in hacker's revenge (cf. Sterling's book, below). Why do companies and police have such lousy security? How are normal people supposed to defend their reputations and criminal records from this kind of tampering? I'd put TRW in jail, personally, for collecting this kind of personal data, selling it as truth, but not securing it. People worship computers without understanding or dealing with the risks. That's the real danger to society in all of this -- and it's the kind of danger that some of these more devious, more Robin-Hood-ish hackers are exposing. These hackers are functioning as journalists, leading society to understanding what is being done to them. [ and no, I don't participate in the black/white game of cracker/hacker. Both the "computer underground" and Steven Levy's (the book "Hackers") + Glenn Tenney's (the "Hackers Conference") communities call themselves hackers and are called hackers, and I'm not the only person that is a member of both, and sees the value of having both. Read the "About The Author" section at the end of Kevin Kelly's (editor of [W]I[R]E[D] magazine) book _Out_Of_Control_. He describes the highly respected Hackers Conference without shying away from the term "outlaws". _Out_Of_Control_ is an *excellent* book, by the way. ] # Upon his return, there were new charges filed in Santa Cruz, accusing Mitnick # of stealing software under development by Microport Systems, and federal Ignoring the legal contradicitons in the pharse "stealing software", who hasn't infringed a little software copyright here or there? # On Thursday, Mitick, now 25, was charged in two new crimpinal complaints # accusing him of causing $4 million damage to a Digital Equipment Corp. # computer, stealing a highly secret computer security system and gaining huh? again, what the hell is $4 million of damage? The computer was worth $4 million, and it no longer works? I kinda doubt it. # access to unauthorized MCI long-distance codes through university computers # in Los Angeles and England. Classic hack/phreak behaviour. A drop in the bucket to MCI. Hopefully he picked large univesities that won't notice it either. # makes it a crime to gain access to an interstate computer network for # criminal purposes. So they don't even find something honest to convict him of. They pick a bogus law about "access to an interstate computer network for criminal purposes." Huh? Such a dangerous person, and all they can get him on is "access a computer network" for "criminal purposes"? No real henious crime they can point to? Nobody other than Very Large Corporations that lost Phenominal Amounts of Money that probably won't withstand further scrutiny? # He faces a maximum of 20 years in prison and a $500,000 fine. This man will be convicted to 20 years on the basis of pure hype -- on the Thought Crime of having Criminal Purpose. Why can't we do better than that? It sure makes me suspicious, and not of Mitnick. # Los Angeles police are trying to determine what other damage Mitnick # may have done with his computer terminal, Black said. Just make something up! in the words of Rich Stallman, Happy Hacking! strick p.s. other required reading on the topic: _The_Hacker_Crackdown_ by Bruce Sterling. You can FTP it; Bruce liberated it himself. (actually, his deal with the publisher was that he would give them 50% of sales if they'd allow him to publish it electronically!) http://www.eff.org/pub/Publications/Bruce_Sterling/Hacker_Crackdown/ ############# # This message to Hungary-Online@hungary.yak.net # was from strick -- henry strickland # # To unsubscribe, # send "unsubscribe" to # An announcement-only subscription (less volume) is available # at # Send mail to for more information, # or to if you need human assistance. #############