From hungary-online-owner Sun Dec 3 16:54:29 1995 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) (fnord) by nando.yak.net (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA09290 for hungary-online-out31415; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 16:54:29 -0800 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) (fnord) by nando.yak.net (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA09281; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 16:54:17 -0800 Received: from ddt@lsd.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for hungary-online@hungary.yak.net (9279) Received: from netcom13.netcom.com (root@netcom13.netcom.com [192.100.81.125]) (fnord) by nando (8.6.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA09276 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 16:54:08 -0800 Received: from [129.46.82.85] by netcom13.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id QAA13474; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 16:50:33 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: Level Seven Design X-PGP-KeyID-Fprnt: 4AAF00E5 - 30D81F3484E6A83F 6EC8D7F0CAB3D265 X-PGP: http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/htbin/pks-extract-key.pl?op=get&search=lsd X-Floppyright: (f)1995 LSD.com _ Unlicensed retransmission prohibited. Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 16:53:52 -0800 To: /dev/null@lsd.com From: Dave Del Torto Subject: (HOL) encryption=privacy=freedom Sender: owner-Hungary-Online@hungary.yak.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Hungary-Online@hungary.yak.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Capsule: There's quite an important debate raging on the Cypherpunks list these days over Netscape CEO Jim Clark's recent decision to support the US govt's Fortezza (escrowed key) cryptographic system in certain versions of the Netscape web browser. His decision does not necessarily mean the death of Netscape, nor does it ensure that *all* of N's web client browsers will include key escrow, but it's an ominous sign when a company with 70+% of a market (in this case, WWW browsers) decides to buckle under Federal Spook (spy) pressure (NSA, FBI, CIA, etc, not to mention the French Govt) and potentially compromise secure communications for millions of people. "GAK" (Govt Access to Keys, aka "key escrow") is a *big* and largely misunderstood issue in the Privacy debate, since it means the/a govt having access to a backdoor-copy of your secret key so that under court order (or possibly subrosa, by bribed/dishonest govt officials/agents, etc) it can decrypt your private communications or data, with or without your knowledge/approval. Cypherpunks don't necessarily oppose GAK for _govt employees_, who may need to be investigated by the public they serve in a democracy, but virtually all find it unacceptable that a govt would force such a system on private citizens, since it's such a clear threat to free speech and other basic democratic rights (privacy, etc.) as they apply to the Internet. I think that people living in Europe or the former Eastern Bloc countries will have an interest in and/or a valuable perspective on this debate (especially those with long memories). The folks in the US who are fighting the Govt on this (Cypherpunks and others) will benefit from hearing those opinions. The US government may try to classify cryptography as "munitions," but your voice NOW is the only true "ammunition." It would not hurt for Jim Clark and other Netscapers to hear your opinions either, since it's not too late for them to lead other companies in the right direction: away from GAK and towards an Internet with universally available communications tools that are equally secure for anyone to use privately. Remember one of the Cypherpunk maxims: "If strong cryptography is outlawed, only outlaws* will have strong cryptography." (*and terrorists and oppressive governments) Dr. Fred Cohen's posting (below) is one of the more pithy (and less technically-oriented) I've seen recently, so I thought I'd share it with some intelligent people overseas. If you have an opinion about it or a brief story to tell that will assist us in fighting this GAK initiative (including some key Netscape employees who agree that GAK is a bad idea), please send your comments to me directly (Reply to the address above) and I will digest them to the Cypherpunks (a high-volume list where excessive cross-posting is discouraged). PGP-encrypted mail is encouraged. See the header above for my Public Key: I alone control the Secret Key, so no-one else will be able to read the email, and you have my solemn assurance that, if you so request, anything you share will be kept private between us. dave ................................. begin fwd ................................. From: fc@all.net (Dr. Frederick B. Cohen) Subject: Globally legal Netscape To: cypherpunks@toad.com Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 16:46:28 -0500 (EST) If Netscape wants a global product that is completely legal anywhere, all they have to do is eliminate all encryption. The deal they are cutting now is to claim that they provided privacy when they do not. The saddest part is that many people will believe they are secure: - -> the credit card companies and ecash banks will charge interest on every transaction to pay for the fraud rates, - -> the government will close its grip even tighter on individual freedom and get an even tighter stranglehold on free speech, - -> politicians and right wing demogogues will begin to expose individuals for having abortions and reading smut and thinking the "wrong" way. I'm not asking you to believe this - only to look at history and see the parallels throughout time. - The Russian revolution resulted in purges killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people because of their private, turned public, views as expoused in their private writings. - The Soviet government took away personal privacy to keep their stranglehold on their people. - The Chinese government used cameras and other similar privacy-removing techniques to track down the peaceful protesters who stood for free speech in Tien-a-men square. - The Germans under Hitler used personal records to identify and murder millions of Jews and other peoples. These are just four examples of selected from this century! There are many more in each century. Personal privacy - freedom from unreasonable search and seizure - the right to bear arms - all of these tell me that the US constitution secures the ability of Americans to have secure personal encryption in the information age. The president of the United States, each member of congress, and each CIA and NSA and FBI agent swears to God that they will protect and defend these rights as a condition of taking their offices. Those that fail to support the constitution in this way should be tried as traitors. But instead, we see these people coercing Netscape into breaking the law on their behalf. Breaking the law by cooperating with the government in illegal search and seizure, breaking the law in preventing Americans from attaining privacy, and breaking the law by defrauding the public with false claims of privacy protection. This is the time for Netscape to prove itself to the public by taking a stand for the Constitution, for the law of the land, and for the people of the United Stated and the world. If Jeff the Netscape munitions expert sees this, I hope he forwards it to his boss, and I hope his boss considers seriously that he may be the instrument of a totalitarian state arising in the US and throughout the world. It's easy to say that you're not responsible and that it's the government's fault, and that you're just following orders. But there is an old saying - evil flourishes when good people do nothing. If money is what you worship, you can get it by standing on the dead bones of your fellow human beings. Hitler did it, it was done in the Russian revolution, it was done in the Soviet Union, it was done in China, and it will be done again and again, as long as the Netscapes of the world fail to make a stand when it counts. - -> See: Info-Sec Heaven at URL http://all.net/ Management Analytics - 216-686-0090 - PO Box 1480, Hudson, OH 44236 .................................. end fwd .................................. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Verbum sapienti satis est. iQCVAwUBMMJEnqHBOF9KrwDlAQGjWAP+OxoapmNlT9sZ22k8dyWsrH8kP0SUt8pK 91icuYyQx2vrrNX1oZbgthx6EeEVTq8z3IokoFOUOea6C6Tdpq5KtHip45v54JZw qJzobEYAuH+u46F287+RobSix7vvfCFn6jCiASLOZMhkIZ4rbxigmxguqdj2uNRY Gu2aDaLYQLw= =J1Un -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ############# # This message to Hungary-Online@hungary.yak.net # was from Dave Del Torto # # To unsubscribe, # send "unsubscribe" to # An announcement-only subscription (less volume) is available # at # Send mail to for more information, # or to if you need human assistance. #############